Question For NYC Mosque Supporters- what is your religion or non-religious outlo

[Aimeey7]

Just curious. I know there's not enough here to get a good generalization, but still, I wonder, if you support the mosque, what is your belief or non belief status?

[oldster]

That is a leading question, Aimeey.  Do you mean people who support the Constitutional right of the group to establish their mosque where they choose, or do you mean people who think it is a good idea for them to do so?  Those are quite different positions. I haven't heard anybody here indicate that they thought that it was a good idea.  I also haven't heard any political leaders say that it was a good idea.  I have heard many people say that in this nation of laws they may do so according to our laws.

Who are the mosque supporters to whom you refer, Aimeey?

[Jehovahsman]

Muslims get on their knees and their faces and worship God 5 times a day. Before they do so, they wash their feet in respect to the house of God, and because Jesus said "my disciples need only to wash their feet to be clean." I won't pretend to know how many of the people who oppose the mosque get on their knees and faces and worship God several times a day, but I suspect the number to be near zero. So what is it that they oppose, people getting on their faces and worshipping God? I support any structure that serves as a house of worship to the God of Israel, even if those who worship have a problem with the people of Israel. In the book of Jeremiah there is a story where God tells israeli leaders to take arab rechabites in the temple and offer them wine. The jews do just that, but the arab rechabites refused the wine because their fathers forbid them to drink wine, and because they were in a house of prayer, At the time jews were serving in the temple drunk, and they were putting the fork in the meat to take out a portion before the meat was done, so they could get a bigger piece. Meat falls apart when cooked thouroghly. Plus, they were sleeping with the women that were in the outer court and pretending to use their influence with God to get favor from God for people. Arab rechabites, of which Mohammad was undoubtedly one, were opposed to israeli's because they didn't respect Gods house or his word. Arab rechabites like Mohammad lived in tents, never drank wine, didn't plant vineyards, went about naked, and ran to defend Jerusalem when Israel called. Muslims believe that Jesus will be the annointed one [messiah] that will destroy the wicked. They believe Jews will be chopped to pieces by Jesus at his return. Who knows who Jesus is going to kill, he told his disciples to be careful because they didn't know when their master would come and chop them to pieces as he put it.

[Aimeey7]

That is a leading question, Aimeey.  Do you mean people who support the Constitutional right of the group to establish their mosque where they choose, or do you mean people who think it is a good idea for them to do so?  Those are quite different positions. I haven't heard anybody here indicate that they thought that it was a good idea.  I also haven't heard any political leaders say that it was a good idea.  I have heard many people say that in this nation of laws they may do so according to our laws.

Who are the mosque supporters to whom you refer, Aimeey?

good point. I suppose I'll have to ponder how to rephrase. I support their legal right to build it.

Yet, though, I have yet to hear of ANYONE who does not support their LEGAL RIGHT to build it.

So, I guess my question is to those who think they -- the ones that are behind building it--- should not be pressured, lobbied, or otherwise--legally---- discouraged from building it at that particualr location. How's that?

[Aimeey7]

Muslims get on their knees and their faces and worship God 5 times a day. Before they do so, they wash their feet in respect to the house of God, and because Jesus said "my disciples need only to wash their feet to be clean." I won't pretend to know how many of the people who oppose the mosque get on their knees and faces and worship God several times a day, but I suspect the number to be near zero. So what is it that they oppose, people getting on their faces and worshipping God? I support any structure that serves as a house of worship to the God of Israel, even if those who worship have a problem with the people of Israel. In the book of Jeremiah there is a story where God tells israeli leaders to take arab rechabites in the temple and offer them wine. The jews do just that, but the arab rechabites refused the wine because their fathers forbid them to drink wine, and because they were in a house of prayer, At the time jews were serving in the temple drunk, and they were putting the fork in the meat to take out a portion before the meat was done, so they could get a bigger piece. Meat falls apart when cooked thouroghly. Plus, they were sleeping with the women that were in the outer court and pretending to use their influence with God to get favor from God for people. Arab rechabites, of which Mohammad was undoubtedly one, were opposed to israeli's because they didn't respect Gods house or his word. Arab rechabites like Mohammad lived in tents, never drank wine, didn't plant vineyards, went about naked, and ran to defend Jerusalem when Israel called. Muslims believe that Jesus will be the annointed one [messiah] that will destroy the wicked. They believe Jews will be chopped to pieces by Jesus at his return. Who knows who Jesus is going to kill, he told his disciples to be careful because they didn't know when their master would come and chop them to pieces as he put it.

so, you don't want to answer/won't answer my question.

[Jehovahsman]

Muslims always were and always will be anti-christian because they know the history of christians. Not the original christians, they were jews and arabs- arabs and muslims hate the christians that killed the early christians, edited the scriptures and created a bible, then declared themselves keepers of the faith. It's important to note that written history makes repeated mention of the fact that early christians had miraculous power, and that rome sought that power for themselves. Written history barely makes any mention of Jesus. The historian josephus mentions him and matter of factly says that many believed Jesus was the messiah.
The mention of Jesus in written history is so scant, you wonder why they didn't expound on him. Jesus said he came for the lost sheep of Israel-arab brothers of Israel. Muslims would be foolish to assume that "christian romans" didn't significantly edit the scriptures. Ezekial illustrated something important when he was told to join two sticks together, One represented israel, and one judah. Arabs are from the house of Israel, Judah is the jews. One day God will unite Arab and Jew under the house of israel when Jesus comes back. You know, God said " EGYPT MY PEOPLE, ISRAEL MY INHERITANCE, ASSYRIA THE ROD OF MY ANGER.Arabs and Jews could live together and work out their differences if christians would quit using Jesus to divide and conquer them.
DID YA HEAR THAT?

[yoyo]

good point. I suppose I'll have to ponder how to rephrase. I support their legal right to build it.

Yet, though, I have yet to hear of ANYONE who does not support their LEGAL RIGHT to build it.

So, I guess my question is to those who think they -- the ones that are behind building it--- should not be pressured, lobbied, or otherwise--legally---- discouraged from building it at that particualr location. How's that?

any chance this is the kind of pressure you are talking about?

[Jehovahsman]

good point. I suppose I'll have to ponder how to rephrase. I support their legal right to build it.

Yet, though, I have yet to hear of ANYONE who does not support their LEGAL RIGHT to build it.

So, I guess my question is to those who think they -- the ones that are behind building it--- should not be pressured, lobbied, or otherwise--legally---- discouraged from building it at that particualr location. How's that?

How many blocks away would be suitable?  one? ten? a mile? Do we care if muslims want america out of the middle east? why should muslims care if the americans don't want the mosque there?  How about freedom of religion, capitalism and jobs, property taxes, neighborhood improvment? OH, ARE WE AT WAR WITH ISLAM?

I'll answer any question, ask one. why say i won't answer a question. your positions and questions always seem ambiguous to me.

[Aimeey7]

How many blocks away would be suitable?  one? ten? a mile? Do we care if muslims want america out of the middle east? why should muslims care if the americans don't want the mosque there?  How about freedom of religion, capitalism and jobs, property taxes, neighborhood improvment? OH, ARE WE AT WAR WITH ISLAM?

I'll answer any question, ask one. why say i won't answer a question. your positions and questions always seem ambiguous to me.

What is your religion or religious outlook-- as in

____________________fait h
Atheist
Agnostic


answer someway along those lines.

Direct enough?

[Aimeey7]

any chance this is the kind of pressure you are talking about?

Nope. I said legal and I would add non-violent.

BTW, the Tenn is a whole different can of worms, the city doesn't want to lose the property from the tax roills, that is why they are trying to not allow it.

[yoyo]

Nope. I said legal and I would add non-violent.

BTW, the Tenn is a whole different can of worms, the city doesn't want to lose the property from the tax roills, that is why they are trying to not allow it.

Do you believe what you write?  This rally was attend by groups on both sides fighting for the local government to collect more taxes?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgGgfhQzCn4&feature=related

Of  course it is ok if the baptists cut into the tax rolls  http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011847,00.html

[Aimeey7]

I didn't read/watch that, I read an account of how the dispute ( in Tenn) began-- the government's opposition is based on keeping the land on the tax rolls-- that's not to say individuals and groups outside of government may have brought their opwn agendas to the table.

But, regardless, I am opposed , as I said, to any violent tactics or any regulatory ones to oppose the NYC mosque- or any othe rmosque for that matter.

[Aimeey7]

I'll answer any question, ask one. why say i won't answer a question. your positions and questions always seem ambiguous to me.

That's because liberals are so much smarter than us, but, hey, we try to keep up, as limited as we are.
But, I bet I can dance better than you.

[Aimeey7]

How many blocks away would be suitable?  one? ten? a mile? Do we care if muslims want america out of the middle east? why should muslims care if the americans don't want the mosque there?  How about freedom of religion, capitalism and jobs, property taxes, neighborhood improvment? OH, ARE WE AT WAR WITH ISLAM?

/quote]

Oh, Id say lets at least put it in a buliding that wasn't struck by debris from the planes.

Not all muslims want us out of the middle east-- not generalizing there, are you?
We left Saudi Arabia, did that help?

I suppose if we stopped supporting the oppressor mid east governments that we do, the revolutions would occurr, and the despot regimes would all be replaced by good, benevolent humantariun governemts, right?

[oldster]

good point. I suppose I'll have to ponder how to rephrase. I support their legal right to build it.

Yet, though, I have yet to hear of ANYONE who does not support their LEGAL RIGHT to build it.

So, I guess my question is to those who think they -- the ones that are behind building it--- should not be pressured, lobbied, or otherwise--legally---- discouraged from building it at that particualr location. How's that?

Their legal right to build it has nothing to do with the faith, or lack thereof, of the person who believes that they have the legal right to build it.

I do not support the building of a mosque on that site.  I think it is an intentional and insensitive act on their part.  If they do not have the intention of "sticking us in the eye" then they should realize the ill feelings that they are causing and move elsewhere.

BUT.....

at what point does being "pressured, lobbied, or otherwise -legally- discouraged from building it at that particular location" become persecution?

I think it is a slippery slope, Aimeey.  I don't want "us" to become "them".  Perhaps that is exactly what they want.