Oh but the Health care has center stage......

[Wiener]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Worsening-job-picture-fuels-apf-3163576114.html?x=0


The Consumer Confidence Index, released by The Conference Board, sank unexpectedly to 47.7 in October -- its second-lowest reading since May.

Forecasters predicted a higher reading of 53.1.

It is funny that common American's could have predicted the fall, and never thought about a gain.  Seems that DC is so outta touch with the common American.

[RobinQuillonsHair]

And how much has the cost of healthcare contributed to the decline?

[Wiener]

That like any number having to do with healthcare would depend on which research place you used, I believe.  If they lean left the numbers will look worse for healthcare then if they leaned right.

In this new bill of Reid's it states that States can opt out, how many states got to opt out of the Stimulus, I would guess this is how many States are going to be allowed to opt out of this consumer option they are now pushing.  Nice name change huh, thank Pelosi for that one.

Oh and I did some more research on the bailout funds and so far 57 banks have repaid the monies they were lended back.

[RobinQuillonsHair]

What I was referring to is how much the private companies will be raising our premiums for next year.  I recently experienced a $70 increase in my children's monthly premium.   Next year I am anticipating that to triple or quadruple.  The new house I was hoping to buy probably won't happen because the extra $300 I had budgeted for that will now go to pay that increase in premium plus increases in gasoline, groceries, electricity, taxes, etc.  I don't think any pending health care reform legislation has much bearing on the Consumer Confidence Index at this time.

[GONAVY]

Have you seen anything substantial that addresses decreasing costs?  If so, please forward.  Please don't post "cutting waste and fraud".

[beeker]

Have you seen anything substantial that addresses decreasing costs?  If so, please forward.  Please don't post "cutting waste and fraud".

That's been my pet peeve the whole way along this route.  I see little, if any, actual costs reductions.  All the plans seem to do is supplement those who have difficulty affording healthcare, using taxes.  I believe that insurance costs are based on medical costs, so a $20,000 operation will still cost someone $20,000 we're just changing who is paying that bill and calling it healthcare reform.

[GONAVY]

Bingo.

[RobinQuillonsHair]

What happens now when a person has a $20,000 operation and can't or doesn't pay?  Or the insurance carrier only pays $12,000?  What happens when no one can pay for that $20,000 operation anymore?   

Medicare for everyone or government run hospitals.  Take your pick.

[Wiener]

What happens now when a person has a $20,000 operation and can't or doesn't pay?  Or the insurance carrier only pays $12,000?  What happens when no one can pay for that $20,000 operation anymore?   

Medicare for everyone or government run hospitals.  Take your pick.

What happens when a Doctor only get 12,000 on a 20,000 operation.  That Doctor then claims those as lost wages on his taxes and gets it.  So the Doctors aren't out anything really, the government has made sure of that.  You can verify that by just looking at all the decreases in payments that should have happened under Medicare but never have, Congress always makes sure their payments stay the same.  So the savings from cutting payments is a lie pure and simple.  The current Bill also taxes all medical device makers 40 Billion in increased taxes over the next 10 years to pay for 5 years of coverage for all those uninsured.  You can't tell me this won't make the cost rise.

I will tell you from experience that if you pay cash to a doctor for services rendered you can cut the bill in half right off the top.  You would think that if they really wanted to decrease healthcare cost they would do away with insurance entirely and make everyone pay cash.  It would cut healthcare cost in half.  Then get rid of the  frivolous lawsuit and man we would be one of the cheapest nations for healthcare and still have the best system on the planet.  The Government is going about this all wrong.

[RobinQuillonsHair]

The first question you are asked at the hospital (before what's wrong? or how are you doing?) is "who's your insurance carrier?".  Tell the receptionist you're a cash payer and see what happens.

When daughter broke her arm we were asked who her insurance carrier was.  When we responded favorably the nurse tending to her breathed a sigh of relief and told us we would be able to see one of the better doctors.

It's all about the Benjamins.  With fewer people having Benjamins either the government picks up the tab or the doctor has to trade in his Volvo and buy a Chevy.

I would like nothing more at this time than to see Highmark go out of business.

[Wiener]

The first question you are asked at the hospital (before what's wrong? or how are you doing?) is "who's your insurance carrier?".  Tell the receptionist you're a cash payer and see what happens.

When daughter broke her arm we were asked who her insurance carrier was.  When we responded favorably the nurse tending to her breathed a sigh of relief and told us we would be able to see one of the better doctors.I have never incountered this kind of predjudge when I have ever been to an ER or Doctors office.  Seems a bit elitist to me and I would have left there without them making one penny off of me.  Principles you either have them and stick with them or you are a zombie of society.

It's all about the Benjamins.  With fewer people having Benjamins either the government picks up the tab or the doctor has to trade in his Volvo and buy a Chevy.

I would like nothing more at this time than to see Highmark go out of business.That is exactly what is going to happen then when you get over 65, you won't get the treatments you need, don't believe me?  Look at the fine example that we have in Ma, that will be our healthcare in 6 years. Old people won't be treated and the young won't be able to afford the premiums.

I haven't had health insurance for over 10 years now.  I have my yearly checkup with all tests and when the bill comes I pay cash.   The only difference I have noticed between paying cash and having insurance is they deduct about half off the bill prior to mailing it out to you, then you write them a check for the amount.  I have never been turned down for not having insurance, I have never not gotten a test I needed for not having insurance so there is no down side if you are an honest citizen who pays the bills they owe.  You can set up payment if you wish on the reduced amount, they offer them as low as $15.00 dollars a month on a bill of 500 or less.  I personally think people are insane to pay for health insurance when you can get as good of care and a lot less unnecessary tests without it.  That is part of what is driving up healthcare costs that and frivolous lawsuits.

[PSUROCKS]

The first question you are asked at the hospital (before what's wrong? or how are you doing?) is "who's your insurance carrier?".  Tell the receptionist you're a cash payer and see what happens.

When daughter broke her arm we were asked who her insurance carrier was.  When we responded favorably the nurse tending to her breathed a sigh of relief and told us we would be able to see one of the better doctors.

It's all about the Benjamins.  With fewer people having Benjamins either the government picks up the tab or the doctor has to trade in his Volvo and buy a Chevy.

I would like nothing more at this time than to see Highmark go out of business.

OK.........sometimes I totally agree with you........sometimes you are funny.......but with healthcare, you are just plain ignorant to the facts.

Do you really expect me to believe that the emergency room "triages" your care as to which insurance carrier you have?  Why would an ER nurse care if you're insured?  She gets paid the same.  In fact, a lot of the ER room "business" is because of the uninsured.

She really told you "oh, you'll get to see one of our better doctors........"??  Come on......anyone....tell me how many times a nurse critiqued a physician.  It just doesn't happen.  If what you are saying is true, this nurse could have lost their job.

As it says right in the hospital..........no one can be denied care based on ability to pay.

Oh yeah......a lot of docs DON'T get paid when someone can't pay.  They write it off.  

It's unfortunate that you are hoping for the end of private insurance.  Believe it or not, a lot of people actually work for health insurance companies.  Average people.  Grunts.  Not CEO's.  A lot of people rely on that employment to provide for their families.  Health plans are certainly not among the most profittable business ventures.  

Now, the auto industry, at one time, was very profittable.  As were the big banks.  They had CEO's and other fat cats that were well compensated.  They remain very well compensated.  They even flaunted it in front of congress.  What did the government do for them?  Bali them out.

I wonder if the federal government will be so quick to rush in and save the private insurers when they are going bankrupt because they won't be able to compete with a taxpayer funded public option?        

[oldster]

having no health insurance works just fine when you have no chronic or catastrophic illnesses.  Not so well when you do.  Or when you are underinsured.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/business/01meddebt.html

[Wiener]

I wonder if the federal government will be so quick to rush in and save the private insurers when they are going bankrupt because they won't be able to compete with a taxpayer funded public option?     

It isn't the public option anymore Pelosi had to rename it.  It is now the consumer option, I guess that sounds more user friendly for the public.

[RobinQuillonsHair]

OK.........sometimes I totally agree with you........sometimes you are funny.......but with healthcare, you are just plain ignorant to the facts.

Do you really expect me to believe that the emergency room "triages" your care as to which insurance carrier you have?  Why would an ER nurse care if you're insured?  She gets paid the same.  In fact, a lot of the ER room "business" is because of the uninsured.

She really told you "oh, you'll get to see one of our better doctors........"??  Come on......anyone....tell me how many times a nurse critiqued a physician.  It just doesn't happen.  If what you are saying is true, this nurse could have lost their job.

Actually two nurses told us this.  The ER made the referral to the orthopedic surgeon.

As it says right in the hospital..........no one can be denied care based on ability to pay.

No, but they can sit in the ER until they expire first.

Oh yeah......a lot of docs DON'T get paid when someone can't pay.  They write it off.  

It's unfortunate that you are hoping for the end of private insurance.  Believe it or not, a lot of people actually work for health insurance companies.  Average people.  Grunts.  Not CEO's.  A lot of people rely on that employment to provide for their families.  Health plans are certainly not among the most profittable business ventures.

People used to work pumping gas at one time too.  As fewer folks can afford health plans the companies will have to slash their workforce.  

Now, the auto industry, at one time, was very profittable.  As were the big banks.  They had CEO's and other fat cats that were well compensated.  They remain very well compensated.  They even flaunted it in front of congress.  What did the government do for them?  Bali them out.

The CEO has gotten richer but 100s of jobs in middle management and at the bottom have been cut over the years.  I would say that two tellers now do the work five did in 1980.

I wonder if the federal government will be so quick to rush in and save the private insurers when they are going bankrupt because they won't be able to compete with a taxpayer funded public option?  

Again, I ask.  Does every defendent use the public defender?  Does everyone go to public school?  Does everyone ship packages via the US Postal System?