Got Gas Prices ?

[oldster]

Yes I think the tax rate should be the same as if they made that money in wages because if they are collecting it and putting it in their bank account then that is what it is wages.  Now the hard part is to decide where we draw the line at making them pay more. What wage level do we shut it off at.  Do we charge someone who makes $50,000 a year the same tax on their investments?  See that is the most difficult thing with using progressve things, where to draw that line.  Would you want to pay the same tax on your investments that we would make them pay?

I pay a higher rate than the wealthy.  That is the point that is made concerning them paying a higher rate.

[oldster]

If the guy who makes a million bucks is paying $300k/year and the guy making $50,000 is paying $15k, what's your reasoning for making the millionaire pay even more? Why $1,000,000? Why not $10,000,000? Why not $20,000 over $19,999? Where is your line in the sand and why?

First, pbal. I didn't say that they should pay more.  Second, if the percentage is the same it meets the test of those who are pushing the issue.  Third, Wiener called them greedy, not me.  Just asked her opinion on their level of taxation.

[pbal]

Oldster, I didn't say you said they should pay more, I merely asked the question, much as you did of Wiener.

How do you pay a higher tax rate than the wealthy? In 2012, the highest tax rate is 35% on those making over $388k.

[oldster]

pbal, I asked wiener because she was disparaging investors.  Seems hypocritical of her, but no matter.

I didn't say what I meant very clearly.  Certainly their max tax rate is higher than is mine.  I was referring to the reality of what most of them actually pay, like the 15% of Romney.  My bad for being unclear.

[redcap]

I'm looking for that rate where I pay nothing but still get a couple of thousand refund.

[Wiener]

pbal, I asked wiener because she was disparaging investors.  Seems hypocritical of her, but no matter.

I didn't say what I meant very clearly.  Certainly their max tax rate is higher than is mine.  I was referring to the reality of what most of them actually pay, like the 15% of Romney.  My bad for being unclear.

I disparage investors because you seem to place them higher on some scale than speculators.  I am saying greed is greed.  No matter the name you tag them with.  We all have our levels of greed. I think investors are even more greedy then speculators because the richer they are they more they make off of buying and selling on the market.   Your just pissed Oldster that some get so rich working that they can then live off their investments and pay a lower tax rate than you do.  Your left is showing through and here you claim to be middle of the road.

To prove the greed factor of investors tell me how many speculators (division of the groups using your standards) are on the Forbes richest people in America or World list for that matter?

[oldster]

I disparage investors because you seem to place them higher on some scale than speculators.  I am saying greed is greed.  No matter the name you tag them with.  We all have our levels of greed. I think investors are even more greedy then speculators because the richer they are they more they make off of buying and selling on the market.   Your just pissed Oldster that some get so rich working that they can then live off their investments and pay a lower tax rate than you do.  Your left is showing through and here you claim to be middle of the road.

To prove the greed factor of investors tell me how many speculators (division of the groups using your standards) are on the Forbes richest people in America or World list for that matter?

No Wiener, I'm not pissed off about anything.  I do believe that there is a great difference between speculators and investors.  I never said that one was better or worse than the other; just that they are different.  It is amusing to watch you implode and make assumptions based on nothing other than your personal feelings with no credence given to fact or reality.

And I am very much in the middle.  Of course, if I was a further left than I am I find it laughable that you view that as some sort of evil to be eradicated.  Extremists on both sides of the middle can be found to be evil and self-serving.  The difference between you and me is that I see that and you don't.  You have no grasp of history and the evils that both extreme conservatives and extreme liberals have done.  In fact, lots of evil has been done by people in the middle.  Of course, you think that Adolf Hitler was a socialist and a leftist, so I should realize that discussing anything with you will always have the same result - total ignorance of fact and reality.

I have said here many times that I have no problem with the tax rate that I pay.  You make assumptions because they fit your ideology, and you are quite wrong much of the time, especially about me when you add two and two together and get seven because that is what you want it to be.  This all started because I pointed out the fact that a speculator and an investor have different goals and methods.  You don't agree with that, and being wrong is your right.  Not sure why you turned it into a personal attack on me, but then I should know that when you have no answers that is what you do.

Your question is nonsensical.  I won't even attempt to answer it because it has no meaning or bearing on this or any other discussion.  I didn't place a value on one group or the other; I just said that they are different.  You turned it into something else.

Enjoy your day.

[oldster]

To prove the greed factor of investors tell me how many speculators (division of the groups using your standards)

Unlike you, I didn't make up the definition.  Economists and experts on investment and banking define the terms.  They are not my standards, they are the standards of finance.

Still wondering where you got your info that Buffet buys tankers of oil, speculating that the price will rise and he can sell for a quick profit.  But you will never post that because it was another thing that you made up to support your position.  Not sure if it was a lie or just an uninformed statement of assumption.

Buffet and other investors are in it for the long haul.  Speculators are quick in and quick out.  Investors are content with slow incremental growth and preservation of capital.  Speculators gamble their capital on quick growth.

Like it or not, that is the reality.

[oldster]

over and out.... lol

[WDVE]

CRUDE OIL 105.40
NATURAL GAS 2.33
RBOB GASOLINE 3.09
BRENT CRUDE 118.90



GOLD 1653.10
SILVER 30.55
COPPER 3.77
PLATINUM 1562.00

[Wiener]

No Wiener, I'm not pissed off about anything.  I do believe that there is a great difference between speculators and investors.  I never said that one was better or worse than the other; just that they are different.  It is amusing to watch you implode and make assumptions based on nothing other than your personal feelings with no credence given to fact or reality.

And I am very much in the middle.  Of course, if I was a further left than I am I find it laughable that you view that as some sort of evil to be eradicated.  Extremists on both sides of the middle can be found to be evil and self-serving.  The difference between you and me is that I see that and you don't.  You have no grasp of history and the evils that both extreme conservatives and extreme liberals have done.  In fact, lots of evil has been done by people in the middle.  Of course, you think that Adolf Hitler was a socialist and a leftist, so I should realize that discussing anything with you will always have the same result - total ignorance of fact and reality.

I have said here many times that I have no problem with the tax rate that I pay.  You make assumptions because they fit your ideology, and you are quite wrong much of the time, especially about me when you add two and two together and get seven because that is what you want it to be.  This all started because I pointed out the fact that a speculator and an investor have different goals and methods.  You don't agree with that, and being wrong is your right.  Not sure why you turned it into a personal attack on me, but then I should know that when you have no answers that is what you do.

Your question is nonsensical.  I won't even attempt to answer it because it has no meaning or bearing on this or any other discussion.  I didn't place a value on one group or the other; I just said that they are different.  You turned it into something else.

Enjoy your day.

I think both extremes should be eradicated from our system they are a curse and hindrance to getting on with what needs done.   You don't have a grasp of what I believe Oldster and stop trying to put words in my mouth.   I agree hey use different methods but their goals are very much the same to gain wealth off of the ups and downs of the market.  You can divide them if you wish and the fact that you take the finance worlds word on this just amazes me.  Just like people call rich people who give away a bunch of money to something a philanthropist when all they are really doing is cashing in on tax breaks set in place for them to utilize.   Buffet has enough money to be in it for the long haul but he still does the same things as speculators buy low sell high for a quick profit.  He just invests some of that money back in and the others go and live a life style they can ill afford.  When you cut away the fat they are the same.

[Wiener]

Oldster, I didn't say you said they should pay more, I merely asked the question, much as you did of Wiener.

How do you pay a higher tax rate than the wealthy? In 2012, the highest tax rate is 35% on those making over $388k.

Duck and dodge.   

[molmarsa]

And all I wanted to know, was todays gas prices, Geesh!

[WDVE]

CRUDE OIL 104.86
NATURAL GAS 2.29
RBOB GASOLINE 3.08
BRENT CRUDE 117.64


GOLD 1641.00
SILVER 30.44
COPPER 3.76
PLATINUM 1553.00

[WDVE]

CRUDE OIL 101.03
NATURAL GAS 2.34
RBOB GASOLINE 3.03
BRENT CRUDE 114.68


GOLD 1632.10
SILVER 29.93
COPPER 3.74
PLATINUM 1531.10